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Thanks Lisa. Yes, Mark is a true healer. He'd be happy to hear from you. gavinsvillage.com

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This interview really moved me for many reasons. Mark is a grounded earth father who really considers the whole. Your questions of him are always excellent. Some ripe phrases that I am ruminating and marinating in are:

'We learn that the internal journey is safe' (Eureka! I say)

The reframing you did about your father's comment that you 'had shit for brains' and the way you just turned it around into the composter.

The way that the pandemic made the new normal to be scared of each other. This was what I was most concerned about when it all started and I could feel how it would take such time to rewire around being afraid of each other. A big piece of what I seek to do these days is to reflect only love for each other, now matter what they appear like, so we can come back home again.

And Mark's work with cities and governments. I too work in that field so it was really exciting to hear about someone else doing that kind of work with teams. I will reach out to him, as maybe he would be up for a conversation.

Thank you so much. And thank you for reading my piece 'The Unmaking of Heresy' and giving such thoughtful reflections back. My friend Mira Sophia (who used to live in Ashland) connected me with your Substack and was so happy to see your comments on my post. The great circle continues.

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